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Author
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Topic: New Countermeasures Reading Room
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detector
Administrator
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posted 11-04-2003 02:51 PM
  
As requested, I've put together the reading room. A couple of specific things to note.1. I am not going to announce this area to anyone but the examiners here in the private forum, so it is up to you all to help spread the word. 2. I was thinking that it would be equally, if not more helpful to publish another area of strategies for countering the countermeasures. Tips, tricks, dialogue, etc. that will help examiners uncover those likely to use countermeasures. Let me know. 3. Just to be safe, I purchased a copy of each of the documents. However, while doing that, I noted that two of the manuals had direct links available to the public. (these guys apparently aren't smart enough to password protect their product). So basically, the police-test.net and passapolygraph.com document are easily available to anyone with no copyright infringements whatsoever because you can link to them directly on their site. Without further ado, here is the link and login info: I'll await your feedback/suggestions.
http://www.polygraphplace.com/countermeasures/
user: counter
pass: manuals ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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J.B. McCloughan
Administrator
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posted 11-04-2003 08:38 PM
Great job Ralph!!I eagerly await the arrival of your work on the APA site. P.S. I do have a scanner and a PDF conversion program for those with hard copy material that needs to be converted to digital format. J.B. IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 11-05-2003 01:01 AM
Great job, Ralph! I would just point out that the Doug Williams manual is an old one, and that there's a newer one out there (plus a video) that we don't have yet.------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it.
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detector
Administrator
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posted 11-05-2003 10:21 AM
Yes J.B., scanning these two books into digital format would be extremely helpful'Deception Detection : Winning The Polygraph Game' by Charles Clifton (Author)
'Never Say Lie' by Paul Van Houten 
[This message has been edited by detector (edited 11-05-2003).] IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 11-05-2003 10:41 AM
polyops,Yes, I know the manual is the old one...its the same one that I bought years ago. I do not have the new one and video and don't want to shell out 50 bucks just yet. Maybe everyone can pitch in and split the costs to get a copy? ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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polyops
Member
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posted 11-06-2003 12:59 AM
Ralph,No criticism intended! I just meant to suggest that it would be a good thing to add a note on the countermeasure reading room page that the file now available for download is not the latest one. ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 11-06-2003 10:27 AM
No worries polyops,I didn't take that as criticism and yes I'll add a note of clarity on the age of the material. But I still think it would be a good idea if several people pitched in and bought a recent version...I was serious about that. ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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detector
Administrator
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posted 11-10-2003 03:15 PM
I have received a 2002 version of Doug Williams Sting manual. It is now posted in the reading room.
http://www.polygraphplace.com/countermeasures
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Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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sackett
Moderator
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posted 11-11-2003 08:26 PM
Ralph,It was good to see you at APA in Sparks and finally meeting you and the Misses (Congrats again!). I think what you are doing here is admirable and outstanding for a lot of examiners, but will also suggest that ANY professional polygraph examiner already knows about the "anti" sites, as well as what they are teaching. It is up to us, those that are aware, to inform those "examiners" that have settled comfortably into their own egocentric place in polygraph, where being beaten is only a fantasy. Too many polygraphers out there are either ignorant or too lazy to consider or care that some people in the world actually would like to see us lose our profession through the supposed non-scientific foundations or so-called excessive "false positives" of our profession. Let's get the word out. Get on the I-net, join the APA and AAPP AND your state associations (regardless of school of origin - Hear me Arthurites) and learn everything we can about, not only polygraph, but also our detractors in an effort to suggest those things which will make us all better. Not being a professional is only obvious to those who are... Fraternally, Jim Sackett P.S. Ego's are the only thing that separate us from reality! ------------------
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detector
Administrator
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posted 11-12-2003 12:28 PM
Hi Jim,I completely agree with the sentiment of your message. It is a well known fact that in any cause 20% of those involved carry 80% of the burden. There will always be fringe examiners you will never reach, but it is possible to bring these truths into the mainstream of polygraph and the late adopters will eventually take up the torch. I also agree that it is up to the 20% to consciously inform the other 80%. I'm not even an examiner, but I feel like I'm in that 20% for your industry and have gone from just having this site as a hobby to really feeling conviction that maybe I ended up here for just this reason...to help be a voice for polygraph. Anyway, thanks for your feedback and the work you do. ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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polyops
Member
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posted 11-13-2003 12:44 AM
Ralph,The polygraph profession owes you a deep debt of gratitude. I for one very much appreciate what you are doing for us! ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 11-13-2003 09:02 AM
Thank you.Ralph IP: Logged |
J L Ogilvie
Moderator
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posted 11-13-2003 04:46 PM
Ralph, if this site is a hobby what you do at work must be staggering. Even if only 20% of us say thanks, I hope you get the message.Thanks, Jack IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 11-15-2003 02:02 AM
It looks like we now have all the main "literature" that's out there on countermeasures  though it would be nice to have scans of the books Ralph mentioned, if anyone has them.If anyone's got the Doug Williams DVD, that would also make a nice addition to the library. It would be helpful to be able to mention specific scenes or quotes from it when questioning a subject about their countermeasure use. ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it.
[This message has been edited by polyops (edited 11-15-2003).] IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 11-15-2003 09:21 AM
Polyops,I have both books. It would be a huge task to scan them page by page so I have a better idea. Email me your address and I will send them to you. All I ask is that you take care of them and send them back when you are done so I can loan them out again! Ted IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 11-15-2003 02:31 PM
Ted,Thank you for the kind offer, but it's too much bother. I wouldn't be able to make scans, either, and in any event, I have already read through the first book ("Deception Detection" by Clifton -- pretty much standard fare, as I remember). ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 11-16-2003 09:58 AM
HEY! Check out this clown!Jim Gibbs runs the " Career Technology Institute", WWW.careerinstitute.us in Nashville Tn. For a fee, he will certify you in just about any law enforcement topic. He also sells a manual on how to beat the polygraph. I wonder if he can certify you in ethics as well?? Ted IP: Logged |
J L Ogilvie
Moderator
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posted 11-17-2003 10:53 AM
Ted, I browsed through that web site but didn't see anything about a book to beat polygraph. Could you tell me where you found it?Thanks, Jack ------------------
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 11-17-2003 06:12 PM
Jack,I did not look over his web site. I found him on E-Bay. If you go to Ebay and search under polygraph, you will see his book "Beat The Lie Detector-Countermeasures-Pre-Employment Polygraph Screening". It is item # 3566827725 so you can also search for it that way. Let me know if you still don't find it! Ted IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 11-19-2003 01:07 PM
I posted a link to the auction in the reading room. I was reading his story and the sales copy talks about the author being an officer in california and then failing a test when applying in Reno. that story sounds familiar, like I read it another time in some antipoly material, but I can't seem to locate it.I'm wondering if he isn't just trying to resell someone else's info? ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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polyops
Member
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posted 11-21-2003 01:05 PM
Here is yet another "beat-the-polygraph" manual. This one is called "Beat the Box":
http://www.campingsurvival.com/beatboxliede.html Anyone seen this? Comments?
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It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 11-24-2003 04:07 PM
I've never seen the book. It looks like it has been around for a while...like an older book, but that may just be the cheesy graphics that gives it that feel. My question is...why is it on a camping website?Anyway, I've added that book and the other two to the reading room, not that I have the actual book, but figured I'd put links up to them in case the examiners want to purchase and read and give me feedback. IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 01-03-2004 02:09 AM
It looks like this Jim Gibbs fellow is a regular seller on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3576431386&category=11445 Has anyone seen what it is he's selling? ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. [This message has been edited by polyops (edited 01-03-2004).] IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 01-03-2004 01:59 PM
Polyops,Check out my post above on 11/16/03. It has a link to this guys website. Everything he sells is worthless crap. His diplomas are worthless. I sent him an email telling him what I thought of his beat the polygraph book. He tracked me back to my web site and spent the next few days crank calling my office phone. Ted IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 01:01 AM
I just noticed that Doug Williams says he updated his "manual" on 2/19/04. This would be a good addition to the countermeasures reading room, if anyone's got a copy they'd like to share. ------------------
It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. IP: Logged |
Bob
Member
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posted 03-01-2004 03:09 PM
Polyops;Dr Barland has reviewed Doug Williams current manual for changes, and he reports the following: Cht 1: Use anal contraction (very subtly) AND respiratory reaction (but not a block) on all CQ's Cht 2: Use anal contraction (very subtly) OR
respiratory reaction (but not a block) on ONE CQ (preferably a known lie CQ if used) Cht 3: Use NO CMS anywhere The change concerns what to do on the 2nd Cht; old advice was to manipulate BOTH anal contraction and respiration on ONE CQ; now he advises to do EITHER a anal contraction OR respiratory reaction (but not both) on ONE of the CQ's In Dr Barland's words "Good hunting" Bob IP: Logged |
sackett
Moderator
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posted 03-01-2004 07:48 PM
Doug should have added, "and meanwhile, the examiner will sit back chartgazing and watch the relevants hit the pen stops..."Most of my examinees don't have the ability to do both anyway, especially at the same time. Not without passing out in the chair. LOL!
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